Importance of Bands' Beliefs and Lyrics?

[Kerrick]

Obviously we're all members here because we like Christian metal.  But that's a pretty broad term...  How important are a band's beliefs and lyrics to you, i.e. where do you draw the line of what you'll listen to and/or consider Christian metal?  For example, there's a prominent musician who's been in the scene for many years who considers himself a "Christian Universalist" which is quite unorthodox.  I saw another, newer band on the scene claim the "66 books" (of the Bible) were chosen by man for means of power and control.  For me, these and other heretical beliefs are dealbreakers and I'd rather just listen to a completely secular band.  But there are some other grey-areas too, such as bands coming from very different denominations/etc.  Ideally, all the bands I like would come from a Reformed perspective, but I'm only aware of one (Epta Astera).  Nonetheless, I still listen to bands with members who are Russian Orthodox and even Catholic, depending on lyrics.  How picky are you when it comes to lyrics and what bands say in interviews and such?  I suppose this brings up WHY we listen to Christian metal in the first place?  Anyways, I thought this might make for a good conversation. 

[Deepfriar]

This is an interesting topic and I'll be the first to admit I'm VERY lenient with 'Christian' bands' lyrical content. I am more disturbed when a band does not BEHAVE appropriately (through social media, or business practices or whatever). Even then, I'm pretty lenient. I still listen to Hortor despite some complaints, likely because their lyrics are quite blatantly Christianity-inspired.

I listen to a little bit of secular also but stay away from blatant anti-Christian lyrics. The 'worst' thing I listen to is probably Type O Negative. They had a couple songs that are probably a little sacrilegious but I know that Peter Steele returned to his faith before he passed and I know that he had a very dark sense of humor and the questionable lyrical themes were meant as a joke.

Then there are bands who have strong Christian themes in their lyrics at first and then release later material with barely any references to Christianity. I'm fine with this as long as (like I said) the lyrical themes are not 'anti'-Christian.

I guess I allow for the fact that some bands do not view their music as a 'ministry' or 'outreach' and they are not trying to evangelize through their lyrics. I think music can simply be art. I definitely prefer that bands express their faith in their music but it's not necessary for me to enjoy their music.

A great example is Slechtvalk. Their first album definitely had Christian themes but they slowly strayed from that and now Shamgar mostly writes lyrics about his fictional fantasy world with ancient battles, warring kingdoms, and lost loves etc. I'm totally fine with it and his lyrics are quite beautiful and poetic.

[CrimsonWarrior]

Since becoming more interested in doctrine, I've felt less compelled to listen to bands like Crimson Moonlight now. I haven't really thought through it a whole lot and for now I can only draw arbitrary lines. Like I don't listen to Reverorum ib Malacht for example, because they seem too caught up in Catholicism and mysticism...

[Kerrick]

I'm surprised to hear that since CM was always your favorite as I recall.  What about their lyrics puts you off?  (It's been a long time since I've read through their lyrics and I'm sure I'm more discerning now too...)

[CrimsonWarrior]

There's not really anything that I've found in their lyrics so far that bothers me a whole lot, it's just knowing that they're Eastern Orthodox. I hope it's not too divisive for me to say this, but I honestly think that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches believe in false gospels...

[Deepfriar]

There's not really anything that I've found in their lyrics so far that bothers me a whole lot, it's just knowing that they're Eastern Orthodox. I hope it's not too divisive for me to say this, but I honestly think that the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches believe in false gospels...

I don't think it's terribly divisive unless we have any RCC'ers or EOC'ers here, LOL.

I think we can (hopefully) all agree that any gospel that goes beyond grace by faith alone is a false gospel (Gal. 1:6). Even amid our theological differences, I think we can find common ground there. If not, we can make a topic for soteriology if someone wants to.

With musicians though, I guess I am okay with listening to a band who believes wrong doctrine but still at least loves ('recognizes') Jesus Christ as the Son of God. Despite the 'false gospel', I still think there are well-intentioned (and saved) people in those denominations so I try not to jump to conclusions. I feel like once you start scrutinizing radically, you are going to drive yourself nuts worrying about whether or not the band you are listening to is 'good enough' theologically. This is just my opinion though and I of course recognize that it's a very personal decision for everyone and at the end of the day, only the individual can decide what's right for their listening habits.

[Kerrick]

Nah, I don't think that's too divisive - at least for here.  Even on the old version of this forum (and certainly since we made this new one), I'm yet to see any discussions get out of hand.  Everyone here's pretty dang respectful and mature.

I really don't know much about the Eastern Orthodox beliefs, though I suspect like any denomination, there's a spectrum of beliefs within.  Praying to Mary, for example, I believe is wrong and I'm aware of no biblical basis even remotely in support of doing so.  However, I would probably lump that into the second-order category of the theological triage: I would never become a member of a church which taught that, though based on my limited knowledge of their doctrine, I wouldn't categorize someone who attends there a heretic.

[Deepfriar]

If I understand correctly, there are very minor differences in RCC & EOC, with the major difference being the supremacy of the Pope's authority. Their methods of worship are largely the same, I think.

I had to refresh my memory, though. Here's a good article: What Are the Differences Between Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Anyway?

[CrimsonWarrior]

My biggest problem with RCC/EOC doctrine is the rejection of sola fide/gratia, which ultimately amounts to earning one's own salvation.

There are other problems too though. Penance, purgatory, the mortal/venial sin distinction and its implications, praying to Mary, "veneration" (worship) of saints, icons, etc. I know that those are all Roman Catholic things at least; I'm not sure how much they characterize the EOC (I do know, for example, that the EOC rejects purgatory).

I recognize that there are certainly a handful of saved people who are unfortunately caught in these systems, but I have no doubt that someone who truly subscribes to the totality of their doctrine has entirely missed the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Deepfriar]

Right, no disagreements there bro.

Irgalom is an artist I've recently gotten into whose lyrics come directly from the Bible in many cases. I think it's fantastic and I love it when artists do this because using the Bible's words allows the listener to let God speak to them through the lyrics without man's opinions clouding things. I plan on picking up the rest of Irgalom next time I order from VoGR.

[MetalPioneer]

I wrote a short article on the old Forum that is related to the main topic of this thread

https://christianheadbangers.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/13293764

[Mark Hentze]

if i was gonna create a cd i would make death metal.
or melodic death metal.

[Mark Hentze]

now i am only into pentecostal church.

[Mark Hentze]

and Jesus else matters

[CrimsonWarrior]

I myself am a conservative Presbyterian so I hold strongly to Reformed theology. I grew up Baptist but came to some differing conclusions when I studied theology a bit more. I have a lot of Reformed Baptist friends though and we are very similar. I'm Calvinistic, confessional, cessationistic, and covenantal.

[Mark Hentze]

How interesting.
do you believe in Speaking in Tongues(inspired by the holy spirit)
i do

[Mark Hentze]

Those who say you need your mind.
To be a christian.
well thats fake.
if the holy spirit tells you to do something.
you just need to obey.
dont need to be only intelligent

[CrimsonWarrior]

I believe in speaking in tongues in the sense that it was something that happened in the early church and was a gift of the Holy Spirit. However I do not believe that it is meant to be a pattern for the church today and I also don't believe that we should try to speak in tongues, but I do believe that it is still very possible and in some situations the Spirit very well may make it happen.

God has revealed His will to us through His Word and we don't need anything else. Revelation is closed and we have all the instructions we need to lead a life of godliness. I don't believe in feelings-based Christianity wherein the believer is constantly searching for signs and internal feelings that they believe are led/caused by the Spirit. The Word is sufficient.

I also don't believe that obedience is a cause of salvation, but rather an effect of it, and those who do believe that their own works will get them to heaven will never make it because the standard is absolute perfection. We need the righteousness of God Himself, which we receive by grace through faith which is a gift from Him.

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